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Closed
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wittend opened this issue Jul 25, 2022 · 18 comments
Closed
3 tasks done

Save button missing on toolbar #1253

wittend opened this issue Jul 25, 2022 · 18 comments
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@per1234
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conclusion: declined Will not be worked on topic: accessibility Enabling the use of the software by everyone topic: code Related to content of the project itself type: imperfection Perceived defect in any part of project

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@wittend
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wittend commented Jul 25, 2022

Describe the problem

The Save and Upload buttons are missing on the 2.0.0 rc9 toolbar! This is a critical error, whether it is intentional or otherwise.
As a disabled individual, I am completely unacceptable! I am at the mercy of the mouse. Keyboard shortcuts will not suffice.

To reproduce

Just look at any schetchbook.

Expected behavior

The Save and Upload buttons should be in the toolbar.

Arduino IDE version

2.0.0 rc9 zip

Operating system

Linux

Operating system version

20.1

Additional context

No response

Issue checklist

  • I searched for previous reports in the issue tracker
  • I verified the problem still occurs when using the latest nightly build
  • My report contains all necessary details
@wittend wittend added the type: imperfection Perceived defect in any part of project label Jul 25, 2022
@per1234 per1234 self-assigned this Jul 25, 2022
@per1234
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per1234 commented Jul 25, 2022

Hi @wittend. Thanks for your report.

First of all, the Upload button should still be there:

image

Are you seeing something different? If so, please provide a screenshot.

As for the New, Open, and Save buttons, these were intentionally removed with the intention of making the Arduino IDE more accessible to beginners by removing superfluous complexity from the user interface.

You can still use the mouse to perform all these actions. Just select File > Save. No need to use a keyboard shortcut. If that is for some reason not a suitable alternative for you, please provide more information so that we can fully understand the issue.

Regards, Per

@per1234 per1234 added topic: code Related to content of the project itself status: waiting for information More information must be provided before work can proceed topic: accessibility Enabling the use of the software by everyone labels Jul 25, 2022
@ednieuw
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ednieuw commented Jul 31, 2022

image
I miss the New Open and Save button.

@conr2286
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conr2286 commented Aug 2, 2022

I too miss the upload button. Perhaps, in the best of all possible future worlds, the toolbar might someday be configurable in a manner that does not confuse beginners (e.g. right-click tool bar???).

@per1234
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per1234 commented Aug 2, 2022

@conr2286 as I explained above, the Upload button is still on the toolbar, so there is no reason to miss it. If you really don't have an Upload button, please provide a screenshot.

image

@Lorandil
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Lorandil commented Aug 6, 2022

Personally, I like to explicitly save my work (before shutting down or otherwise).
I think implicit saving adds complexity instead of reducing it.
I don't see a problem in implicit saves, though.

So I really would like to get the save button back (with a "save all" functionality).

@per1234
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per1234 commented Aug 6, 2022

Personally, I like to explicitly save my work (before shutting down or otherwise).
I think implicit saving adds complexity instead of reducing it.
I don't see a problem in implicit saves, though.

Each user is welcome to choose their preferred behavior via the "Auto Save" preference in File > Preferences.

So I really would like to get the save button back

It is not clear to me how this statement follows from your preference for explicitly saving your work.

Explicit saving is still possible via the File > Save menu item, or its keyboard shortcut (i.e., Ctrl+S). Is the removal of the "Save" button somehow preventing you from being able to do explicit saves?

@per1234
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per1234 commented Aug 24, 2022

Closing due to lack of response to my requests for more information about the claims that the "Upload" button is missing.

@wittend @conr2286 if the "Upload" button is missing for you, this is a serious bug and something that should be tracked and investigated. But none of the team working on the Arduino IDE 2.x has ever experienced this problem, so this is only possible with your cooperation. If you ghost the issue then it is a dead end.

if you will provide the requested information by commenting here, I'll be happy to re-open this issue.

@per1234 per1234 closed this as not planned Won't fix, can't repro, duplicate, stale Aug 24, 2022
@wittend
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wittend commented Aug 24, 2022 via email

@ednieuw
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ednieuw commented Aug 24, 2022

I will also miss the save button. With CTRL+S you never know for sure the file was really saved.
A why remove the buttons?

@per1234
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per1234 commented Aug 24, 2022

I misspoke (and said so) concerning the upload button.

Thanks for the clarification @wittend.

I will change the subject of the issue to "Save button missing on toolbar".

and said so

You never provided this information before now. Maybe there was a reply that didn't end up getting posted here? This is the first reply you have made to the thread.

you made it clear that you did not respect my input on this as an accessibility issue.

I apologize if I gave you that impression. I very much value any input on the accessibility of the Arduino IDE. That is why I specifically asked you for more information about it:

You can still use the mouse to perform all these actions. Just select File > Save. No need to use a keyboard shortcut. If that is for some reason not a suitable alternative for you, please provide more information so that we can fully understand the issue.

What else is there to say?

Please help us to understand why the menu items are not an acceptable substitute for the buttons from an accessibility standpoint.

@per1234 per1234 reopened this Aug 24, 2022
@per1234 per1234 changed the title Save and Upload buttons missing on toolbar. Save button missing on toolbar Aug 24, 2022
@conr2286
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conr2286 commented Aug 24, 2022 via email

@per1234
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per1234 commented Aug 25, 2022

With CTRL+S you never know for sure the file was really saved.

Hi @ednieuw. There is a ⬤ indicator on the right side of the sketch editor tab when it contains unsaved changes. This indicator disappears when you save the sketch. This mechanism should provide a clear feedback that the file was saved regardless of how you trigger the save.

A why remove the buttons?

I tried to explain the reason for the removal (#1194) in my previous reply:

making the Arduino IDE more accessible to beginners by removing superfluous complexity from the user interface.

@wittend
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wittend commented Aug 25, 2022

@per1234: Digging through menus disrupts the flow of work for programmers who have worked this way for decades. Rule #1 Never trust an editor to do what you intend. Make your intentions explicit!

As for reducing confusion for naïve users, I say that taken to such an extreme, this is just nonsense! New users need to understand that their tools only do what they tell them to do. Autosave and fighting through menus only invites errors.

Not everyone has the dexterity to indulge in unnecessary menu navigation. I don't. Clicking a button on a toolbar is the perfect solution.

Dave

@per1234 per1234 removed the status: waiting for information More information must be provided before work can proceed label Aug 25, 2022
@Volt23
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Volt23 commented Aug 26, 2022

@wittend
We have proceeded in a toolbar GUI refactoring in the Arduino IDE 2 to keep the essential functionalities needed to code, verify and upload your code to a microcontroller, while removing what we considered not strictly necessary in this piece of the interface. In doing so we have been carefully looking in what other widely adopted IDE do (like VSCode).

In this specific case regarding the explicit save button in the Toolbar GUI, it is a not an established pattern in IDEs, and in our analysis we considered it unnecessary in most cases since the introduction of the Auto Save behavior by default. If autosave is disabled by the user we have the same UX patterns adopted by VScode, where the user needs to perform the key combination Ctrl+S in order to save the sketch, or alternatively going through the application menu File > Save.

We understand that in your specific use case this solution slightly add friction, but we believe that the save functionality is still accessible either adopting the Auto Save feature* or following VScode like saving pattern.

I hope I've been exhaustive in explaining why we have taken this decision.

  • The Auto Save feature can be enabled in the Preferences panel, checking the Auto Save checkbox.

@per1234 per1234 closed this as not planned Won't fix, can't repro, duplicate, stale Aug 26, 2022
@per1234 per1234 added the conclusion: declined Will not be worked on label Aug 26, 2022
@Tuczz
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Tuczz commented Sep 16, 2022

Hello!

I miss the save button too!

I have some fear of saving broken code over funtional ones, so, I preffer to not use the autosave function and press the Save button when I am satisfied.
I think that a good implementation would be the button apearring depending on the autosave function been activated or not.
About the interface, I don't use the boards elegible to debug function, so I will never use that button. As we already have the debug tab in the left toolbar, I preffer to have a save button up there.
About the left toolbar, it should be optional. Saving the Find tab, in simple projects it whould be used only one or two times (I don't like it in VScode either).

Thanks,
Lucas

@conr2286
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conr2286 commented Sep 16, 2022 via email

@conr2286
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conr2286 commented Oct 11, 2022 via email

@wittend
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wittend commented Oct 11, 2022 via email

@arduino arduino locked as resolved and limited conversation to collaborators Oct 11, 2022
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@per1234 per1234

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conclusion: declined Will not be worked on topic: accessibility Enabling the use of the software by everyone topic: code Related to content of the project itself type: imperfection Perceived defect in any part of project
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@wittend @per1234 @ednieuw @Volt23 @conr2286 @Lorandil @Tuczz