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sips/minutes/_posts/2016-08-16-sip-10th-august-minutes.md

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@@ -23,6 +23,11 @@ The following proposals were rejected:
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* SIP-12: Uncluttering Scala's syntax for control structures
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* SIP-16: Self-cleaning macros
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The following proposals will have a follow-up evaluation:
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* SIP-23: Literal-based singleton types
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* SIP-27: Trailing commas
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## Date, Time and Location
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The meeting took place at 5:15pm Central European Time / 8:15am Pacific Daylight
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* There is no clear consensus that this change is desirable.
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* The major downsides are that it makes Scala look and feel noticeably less
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like Java and other C-like languages, there is significant migration pain for
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like Java and other C-like languages, significant migration pain for
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users would be involved, and it's unclear that the actual benefits of the
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change are really that big.
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In the ensuing discussion, there is a bit of confusion over whether the old
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syntax would continue to be supported, and if so, if adding more ways to
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express the same thing is bad. The proposal recommends supporting the old
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syntax temporarily, and deprecated it after some concrete period.
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syntax temporarily, and deprecate it after some concrete period.
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The Committee sees no added value in the proposal, and all seem to be against
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it. Adriaan wants only one way to do things, and avoid diversity of syntax
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options. Josh points out that sometimes second ways for specifying constructs
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are useful in concrete scenarios, but not in this one. Andrew proposes to put
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the feature under -Y as a starting point. Heather questions the utility of such
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a syntax change. The committee discusses about the parens and braces
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differences.
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options. Josh points out that second ways for specifying constructs
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are useful under concrete scenarios, but not in this one. Andrew proposes to put
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the feature under -Y (experimental flag) as a starting point. Heather questions
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the utility of such a syntax change. The committee discusses about the parens
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and braces differences.
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Jorge and Josh point out that in addition to the obvious migration pain of
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users needing to update their code, there would be pain for the makers of tools
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their tools and frameworks. He thinks that macros have been a successful
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experiment, but one that needs to end. He then points out some of the issues
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with macros (IDE support and dependency on Scala Reflection, which he considers
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overdesigned).
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overdesigned for its purpose).
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As these are problems in the very foundations of the macros, he proposes to
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As these are problems present in the very foundations of macros, he proposes to
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reject the SIP and commits to write up a new proposal based on [Scala
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Meta](http://scalameta.org/), the successor of the old Scala macros, redesigned
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from the ground up to overcome the current metaprogramming shortcomings.
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Josh agrees that macros are super useful but, as in their existing form, 'not
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really what we want long-term'. The Committee discusses how to announce this
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decision, Adriaan is worried that people will that that macros are going away.
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Everybody agrees that the communication of this decision should be carefully
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made.
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Josh agrees that macros are very useful but, as in their existing form, not
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really what the Committee wants long-term. The Committee discusses how to
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announce this decision, Adriaan is worried that people will believe that macros
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are going away. Everybody agrees that the communication of this decision should
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be made carefully.
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Andrew proposes to use the same number proposal for the upcoming Scala Meta
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proposal. Jorge thinks that it would make more sense to create a new proposal
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with a new number, since they are going to greatly differ.
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with a new number, since they will greatly differ in design.
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**Outcome**: The board votes and the proposal is therefore rejected
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unanimously. A new Scala Meta proposal is coming soon.
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**Outcome**: The board votes and the proposal is therefore rejected unanimously.
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A new Scala Meta proposal is coming soon.
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### Discussion of SIP-27: Trailing Commas
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Eugene Burmako thanks Dale, the author of the proposal, by the provided
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feedback from the last meeting's discussion. He did a detailed analysis of the
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feedback from the last meeting's discussion. Dale did a detailed analysis of the
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required feature interaction for trailing commas. Eugene explains the concerns
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of the last meeting and encourages the Committee to have a look at the recent
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comments provided by Martin on the GitHub discussion.
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**Conclusion**: The Committee asks Dale to explicitly summarize the potential
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conflicts with tuple syntax, review the initial [HList proposal in
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Dotty](https://github.com/lampepfl/dotty/issues/964) to figure out potential
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conflicts with the proposal. Eugene also proposes Dale to consider whether the
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conflicts with his proposal. Eugene also proposes Dale to consider whether the
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Committee can salvage non-controversial parts of this proposal and reduce this
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SIP just to them, as well as discussing the utility of having two ways of doing
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the same thing.
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Adriaan explains what the proposal is about. He's happy that George Leontiev's
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proposal is getting to the finish line by Miles. He wants to decouple more the
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design of the proposal and the implementation, e.g. removing implementation
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details in the proposal. Adriaan will also want the authors to better work out
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the interaction with other Scala features, like the equality against the `Any`
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type, `asInstanceOf` and `isInstanceOf`. He points out that quasiquotes should
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also be addressed.
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design and implementation of the proposal, e.g. removing implementation details
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in the original SIP. Adriaan will also want the authors to better work out the
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interaction with other Scala features, like the equality against the `Any` type,
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and `asInstanceOf`. He points out that quasiquotes should eventually be
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addressed.
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Josh needs to leave the meeting and transfers his vote to Adriaan. The
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Committee agrees to put this under review for the next meeting.
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Committee agrees to put this under review for the next meeting, waiting for the
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author's feedback.
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**Outcome**: The proposal is under review until the next meeting. Adriaan asks
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the authors to separate the spec and the implementation and address some

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